I first met Josh Yeoh a number of years ago while living in Malaysia, but didn’t get to know the man until a recent trip (when I returned to the country to work on this project).  I had never spent much time before in a House of Prayer, but because of my friendship with Josh I had the opportunity to do the very thing in Penang.  The experiences were, personally, profound.  For many of us the concept of a building dedicated solely to prayer is foreign at very least.  If you have the fortune to visit the Penang House of Prayer, affectionately also known as PenHOP, you’re likely to see Mr. Yeoh sitting at the keys, playing, meditating, singing his heart out.

[Check out my Malaysian video interview with Josh about his previous album Is Anyone Out There]

Josh’s work and vocation give a glimpse, for me at least, into what the ancient ministers in the temple must have been like  – men like Asaph, appointed by Israel’s King David to continually sing before the ark of the covenant. Or maybe he is more like the man Annie Dillard describes in the incomparable Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, the man “on the road who knows precisely how vulnerable he is, who takes no comfort among death-forgetting men, and who carries his vision of vastness and might around in his tunic like a live coal which neither burns nor warms, but with which he will not part.”

I was excited to learn that Josh recorded, and is about to release his second album, entitled In That Day.  I interviewed Josh via email, and he thoroughly typed out his thoughts on an iPad from Penang.

Andrew Kooman: I’ve only heard a brief tease of your upcoming album but in it I can hear it goes a very different direction from your previous one. Describe your new sound.

Josh Yeoh: You’re right. It’s pretty different. The first one was a snapshot of my personal journey with God and what He was doing in me at that point in time. It was singer-songwriter and probably more introspective. This upcoming album captures what my life has been like ever since He called me back to Malaysia to start the Penang House of Prayer . I think the message of the CD is what is burning with urgency on my heart. It’s the understanding that Jesus is coming back as a Bridegroom, King and Judge. He’s not just the little baby in the manger, or the dead man on the cross. He’s jealous and zealous for His Bride, the Church. And He will receive the reward of His suffering. I think this “new sound” you mentioned reflects the heart and message of the album. It’s definitely a bigger sound. And I was privileged to have some of my closest friends play on this album with me. And it reflects what happens on a daily basis in the Prayer Room at PenHOP (albeit a lot more rehearsed and with fewer mistakes!). This album is definitely more congregation-friendly. But there are still a couple tracks that are reminiscent of the first CD. Yep, I’m still Josh. I still have a soft spot for the piano and cello combo.

AK: Will you be touring the album or playing gigs? How can people connect to you live?

JY: There will be four release concerts this month in Penang. Three at local churches, and one an invite-only event at PenHOP, where many of the songs were birthed [details on the website]. My full-time vocation is with the House of Prayer, so any “gigs” I have will probably be tied into speaking engagements or worship leading. I’ll be in Australia and Singapore for a few weeks in January, in Sabah (East Malaysia) in February, and in Indonesia in May next year. No “gigs” lined up as of now, but who knows? I’ll be updating my ministry page on the website with my schedule, so that’s the best way to connect. It’s also the best way to invite me to minister, or speak, or sing, or for dinner.

AK: How would you say that have you grown and developed as an artist since your previous album?

JY: Man, you don’t ask easy questions, AK! Part of my job now involves me leading worship and intercession sets for many hours in a week. In addition I’m leading worship nearly every weekend, whether at FGA Center or at different ministry engagements. And a lot of what I do now in worship is spontaneous. So you could say that I’m always writing new songs. Some are sung only once, some I remember and flesh out into full songs. So I think I’ve grown in terms of songwriting. And also vocally. I’m learning to do things that I never did in my previous album.

I’ve also been involved in several collaborative projects in Malaysia: with Oops! Asia (my song “Relent” was featured on a compilation album) and with Malaysian Gospel Music (for the recently released “Adore” album, I recorded a revamped version of arguably the most popular Malaysian worship song, “Everytime I Pray” written by Pastor Wah Lok). So I’ve spent a lot more time in studios working with different producers and learning the tricks of the trade from them. You’ll notice what I call the “Josh choir” on some of the tracks in this new album. No, I didn’t have female backing vocalists. I also got to work with Sam who taught me a lot about recording.

AK: Who are some of your musical influences?

JY: I never know how to answer this, especially if I list influences that my album sounds nothing like. I literally just looked on my iPhone to see what is loaded, because what I listen to most probably is what influences me, right? By that logic, my musical influences are: Phil Wickham, Cory Asbury, Ben Woodward, Jon Foreman, Starfield, Audrey Assad and Sufjan Stevens. My music probably sounds nothing like some of them… but I really like their music.

AK: What was the process like to write these new songs? Where did they come from and why these songs now?

JY: The process was different for each. I never know what to say when people ask if I write the melody first or the lyric or both. Many of the songs were birthed spontaneously in the Prayer Room. “Song of the Lamb” for example, was birthed during a packed out Friday Night Burn set in our old place. I remember it being a very powerful time of worship and it was like we were standing before the throne of God, and I “heard” this refrain: “I can hear heaven’s symphony resounding in worship to the Lamb who was slain”. And we just started singing that over and over for a good 20 minutes. “There Will Be A Day / Garden” were both birthed when I was doing a devotional set (soaking type worship). It was just me at the keys and I think there were two other people in the room. And I was singing from Revelation 22, and all of a sudden started to sing this chorus: “There will be a day when you will wipe away every tear from our eyes”. And as I sang I suddenly became aware that the other two people were bawling their eyes out as they encountered God. Ironic? Or poignant.

AK: Why these songs now?

JY: Great question. It was right after we had wrapped up our 168 Hours of Prayer in June when I felt it was the right time to make this CD. Of course, I had an internal argument with God about this because this was also the height of busyness in my life. To add to the “pressure”, I felt like the deadline for the CD was to be in November. Which gave us about 3 months to pull everything together. Ridiculous. But I like your question because I did feel an urgency in my heart for these songs to be released. I think there is a message in each song — I joke that each song is really a sermon in disguise — and each is rooted in Scripture that I hope as people sing will reveal Jesus rightly and inspire worship, because I believe worship is really a response to the revelation of who He is! Also, I think I had read or heard someone say — I think it was Bill Johnson… and if it wasn’t, then it was me — that what we sing in worship often shapes our theology, and where we want the Church to be in five years is what we should be singing today. Ok, that was a poor paraphrase. But you get the idea.

AK: What’s your day-to-day life like? (A lot of people don’t know or haven’t experienced life at an “intercessory mission” like the Penang House of Prayer). Can you describe what PenHOP does and why you do what you do?

JY:In a nutshell, PenHOP’s vision is to establish a 24/7 House of Prayer for all nations in the spirit of the tabernacle of David that is a nexus of worship, intercession and missions. (I speak on this all the time and it usually takes a couple of hours, so summarizing is going to be… fun!) I believe PenHOP is called to exist with the Church and for the Church — like an engine room that powers what He is doing in the City, and like the tip of a spear that pierces and breaks through the new things. In this season, we are called to “Awaken the Bride” to intimacy, intercession and her inheritance in Jesus, and one of the ways we have been doing that is through our 30 Hour Prayer Weekends that we hold in a different church each month.

We really want to raise the water level of worship and intercession in the city of Penang. We also run internships a couple of times a year that have been really life-changing for a lot of people. And our strategy in this season is to “spark and strengthen” what He is doing in Malaysia and in the region, so we’ve been sending teams to various places to “deposit” the DNA of the House of Prayer wherever He leads us!

My day-to-day life involves leading worship and intercession, leading people, and drinking lots of coffee. I get to serve as Director at PenHOP and so I guess I end up “directing” a lot of what goes into achieving everything I described in the paragraph above. But definitely it involves a lot of coffee. And a lot of the Holy Spirit. And coffee.

AK: Why do prayer and music blend so well and why do you think people are drawn to your house of prayer?

JY: I think it’s because it’s how God likes to be worshiped. Look at what you see around the throne of God. It’s Revelation 5:8. It’s the harp AND the bowl. I was just reading the other day about how prayer is the full spectrum of human expressions to God (Bob Sorge) and that encapsulates worship, thanksgiving, intercession, confession, etc. So I really don’t see a division between prayer and worship/music. We have an entire book of prayers that were written to music — the Psalms. So really, I don’t think we are reinventing the wheel or anything. We’re just doing what always preceded revival and nation transformation.

What draws people to PenHOP, in a word… or in four words… The presence of God. If we don’t have His presence, we have nothing.

AK: I don’t know if you’ve read Malcolm Gladwell’s Outliers, but it could be your autobiography. (Insert laughter here). You’re probably fast approaching 10,000 hours at the piano. How do you keep worship and intercession fresh?

JY: That awkward moment when I don’t know who you are referring to. But I just wikipedia-ed it and now I think I will need to get a copy for myself. Maybe as a Christmas gift. Funny story about the piano. My keyboard at home won’t turn on, I think something got fried. And the keyboard we bought for PenHOP just a few months ago — I think we may have broken the “A” key. So it makes obnoxiously loud noises every so often. Highly distracting. Ok, so that wasn’t a very funny story.

I think about the creatures around the throne whose primary function is to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord. And if they never get bored and never cease to cry “Holy” because you can never really exhaust the revelation of God… I don’t see how worship and intercession could ever get stale, if it’s rooted in beholding Him, and not in what we can get out of worship for ourselves.

AK: I’m wondering what sort of cultural legacy you hope Penhop will leave in your part of the world?

JY: I got to ride in my aunt’s Prius recently and it occurred to me that this is what I want to see most of people who are a part of PenHOP. Because of the nexus of worship, intercession and missions, I want to see a “hybrid” where the answer to questions like: “Are you a worship leader, intercessor, or missionary?” is “Yes, yes and yes”. I would also love to say that we had a hand in raising the level of worship and intercession, calling a generation to wholehearted abandonment and consecration, and turning the hearts of the generations. Sounds like a lot, eh? And perhaps not what you were really asking…

AK: I’ve asked other musician friends recording albums about how they find and pursue an authentic voice and I wonder if it is especially challenging when dropping a worship CD. What, to you, is authentic worship and how do you gauge authenticity in your own life?

JY: When I talk to worship teams, I always tell them that greatness is established not on stage, but in the secret place. And I think that’s the key to authenticity. God brought (broke) me to the place where the cliche of “performing before the Audience of One” became reality. So the way I gauge is to determine if my secret place life with the Father and what I do on stage or when leading matches up.

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Follow Josh: facebook | twitter | youtube

Book Josh via email

Visit his official website: www.JoshuaOneEight.com

Read more of AK’s interviews with artists, activists and bold thinkers here.

I’ve been playing “Here on Earth,” the new album by Brian and Katie Torwalt frequently.  It’s unusual for me to repeat a worship album so much.  But when you hear these new songs, you’ll understand why.

Recently I caught up with the musical couple via email to ask them some questions about their approach to worship, their influences, and how they came to express their faith through song.

Andrew Kooman: For people who have yet to hear your music or this new album, describe your sound and what they can expect.

Bryan Torwalt: I feel like the sound we were going for is similar to a Coldplay but for corporate worship, with a hint of folk. Haha… you can decide if that’s what it came out as, but most of the songs have very anthemic declarative choruses, with big musical vamp sections.

AK: Bryan, you’ve been writing and performing music for years. How do these songs at this time define you as a musician?

BT: For this record we really focused a lot lyrically on what we were saying. We wanted these songs to mean something and to come from experience in worship.

Katie has amazing idea’s for melodies and chorus hooks in songs. So it’s really been an album of learning to work and write together.

AK: After all the time preparing for this release, rehearsing, recording and planning what is it like to perform your music before an audience?

BT: Well we are currently worship pastors at a church in Fresno, CA. So these songs have really had a year of practicing in front of an audience before we ever recorded. We’d do a song on a Sunday, then take it home and change it, see what worked well with a band and what didn’t. You can really tell when an audience catches on easy, and if they didn’t, we usually changed something.

However since the record is done, we just had an opportunity to play in front 15,000 people in Chicago, and it was Incredible!!!! We’ve never experienced anything quite like that before.

AK: Katie, that voice! Hearing it I’m reminds me of that story in the Old Testament when facing the army the Isrealites are told to simply stand and worship, and they win the war. And you read that, and you scratch your head and wonder, How could worship stop an army? But hearing your voice you really do get a picture of how that’s possible, how an enemy could simply be stopped in its tracks by someone who truly worships. You just pulverize! (But enough piling). When did you start to see yourself as a vocalist – were there any particular triggers into that creative journey?

Katie Torwalt: I remember as a little girl realizing that I could connect with God through singing and worshipping Him. I didn’t have the theology for it then but I would feel God’s presence when I sang like no other time. I guess I would have just said if you would have asked the 6 year old me, that Jesus “just liked it when I sang”. Praise has taken me through the darkest times in my life and has transformed my mind and given me peace in storms so that is why I place so much value on it. In my own life I have seen it change atmospheres and heal.

AK: I’m interested to hear from both of you: How do you cultivate your craft as artists?

BT:  Again being worship pastors, we’re playing all the time. And it is amazing but it can become a chore sometimes. For me I do need to lock my self in a room every once in awhile and just write, or just play. Also for me going for a walk/prayer walk, and just being quite helps me re-focus if i’m feeling like i’m in a rut. And also listening to other musicians and artists always inspires me.

KT: I Love to constantly listen to the creative perspective others are discovering. I am always looking for inspiration. I love the idea of staying novice in my approach to learning and of course practice!

AK: Worship in many ways has been commercialized as a commodity in the music world as ‘just another product’. Yet listening to your album you get a sense of the authenticity of your music. What, to you, is true worship, and how do you cultivate it?

BT: True worship to me comes from relationship and thankfulness. If I don’t feel like I’ve connected with God personally, I have a real hard time being authentic in my worship of Him. Even to consciously recognize and remember what He’s done for me, his faithfulness in my life, the miracles, the peace that He brings. It allows me to go to a place of focusing on Him instead of on me. And allows me to place my affection on Him, and truly worship Him from deep within. For me it’s all about that connection with God.

AK: I think there are a lot of Christians out there who struggle to find a way to express their faith. There are also a lot of artists and musicians who are struggling to ‘make it.’ In a unique way you are doing both, killing those birds with the same stone. What advice do you have for the Christian wondering how to effectively share their faith or to the musician working to find an audience to share their art?

BT: I think for the Christian expressing their faith, it really comes back to the last question. Connection with God, living a lifestyle of worship. When that becomes real to you, it won’t look fake to the people that are around you watching you love your God. They all just want to see something real.

For the musician, we’d be lying if we say we made this happen. LOL…. We really do feel like God has set a lot of this up for us. But at the same time, we have worked hard to improve our craft of songwriting and singing/playing. As far as finding an audience, it seems like everyone says be true to what’s inside, which I agree with. But I believe you also have to pay attention to what people are listening to and what they want to hear in a certain season. There are a lot of amazing musicians out there who will never be heard by the masses because they’re “too original” in my opinion.

AK: What is Jesus Culture and how did you end up under their banner?

BT: Jesus Culture is a Christian Youth Movement based out of Bethel Church in Redding CA, that started out small with some conferences. And now has turned into an international Youth movement/Band/Record Label. Kim Walker-Smith is a major part of Jesus Culture and the Jesus Culture Band. And Katie’s friendship with her is how we first got connected with Jesus Culture, and we signed under their record label in the fall just before we began working on “Here On Earth”.

AK: Who are some of your musical inspirations and influences?

BT:  My biggest inspirations in music are probably Coldplay, U2, Dave Matthews, Jesus Culture Band, David Gray, Matt Redman, Beyonce, Delirious, Mumford and Sons, John Mark McMillan… and I’m sure many many more that I can’t think of at the moment.

KT:  Lauryn Hill, Kim Walker Smith ( Of course!), Fleet Foxes, Crystal Lewis and Jennifer Knapp influenced me a lot growing up, Brian and Jenn Johnson, Beyonce, Nickle Creek, John Mark McMillan and lots more.

AK: What is next in your musical journey?

BT: Hopefully travel some with this record, we love to worship with people all over the place. And we do plan on another worship record, so we gotta start writing more songs!

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Learn more about Brian + Katie at their album website.

Follow Brian and Katie on twitter and join their facebook page.

For more interviews by AK with artists, activists, and bold thinkers, go here.

Laurie and Tim Thornton

I met husband and wife duo, Tim and Laurie Thornton of The Blackthorn Project, on a recent trip to Colorado.  They helped to host a gathering of artists a couple thousand feet above sea level in Woodland Park, not far from the picturesque Pike’s Peak.

The duo is soon to release its latest album Reckless. What I’ve heard so far delights.  Laurie’s vocals on “Mud Song” soar on a track (you can sample here) that is lyrical and sing-out-loud fun.

I caught up with Tim via email to learn more about the group’s album and approach to music as they near the album’s release and gear up for Worship @ 8500, an annual worship-gathering-meets-music-festival near Colorado’s Great Divide that characterizes the Thorntons and sets them and their people apart.

Andrew Kooman: Your name is loaded with symbolism – can you unpack its meaning?

Tim Thornton: Our last name means blackthorn in Irish. It’s a thick little heavy tree branch used to fend off dogs and robbers and whatever may lurk when you’re walking on a lonely road in West Ireland. More to the point, its a symbol of the struggle against oppression and adversity.

AK: How does your music engage what you call the “struggle against oppression and adversity?”

TT: Sometimes the best way to win is to start throwing the victory party and dance on the head of injustice.

AK: How do you describe what The Blackthorn Project is to people (because it seems to be much more than “just a band selling records” )?

TT: It’s a structure that helps us do what we’re meant to do on earth–express the love of Jesus that frees people to live from who they truly are, instead of trying to become someone. A lot of that happens through music–live and in recordings. It also happens through some mission trips, some teaching/speaking, some retreats and gatherings, and most of all relationships. About everything God does He does through people. It’s a nonprofit that allows us some advantages like thanking the people who choose to share in our work with tax deductions.

AK: What symbols or themes are sustained in your music?

TT: Healing, rest. The return of the prodigal. The good intentions of God for us and finding ourselves in how He sees us. Moving from religion, which makes people smaller, to relationship and favor, which allows people to agree with the great value that our Creator ascribes to us.

AK: How do you describe your sound?

TT: American music–so Americana I guess. New Folk maybe. The lyrics are gospel. The new album has more indie clamor than before. We’re enjoying some dissonances and letting ourselves play. That’s right, not everyone lets themselves play when they play music.

AK: What are your musical influences?

TT: I will put words in Laurie’s mouth: classical, teeny bopper pop, divas, and then some acoustic stuff and newgrass. Closer to our genre, she loves Rita Springer. Laurie’s very much about feel and melody. I was born and bred on Dylan and Gordon Lightfoot, Johnny Horton. So I’m very oriented toward lyric. I really like American rock–Springsteen is great. He inspired me on this album not to think too hard, but to yell it across the valley. “Love Don’t Leave Me Alone” embodies some of that. More vulnerability and heart is where I’m going. Van Morrison is someone I love for that. And like in life, just being comfortable with myself instead of trying to emulate someone else. I sang “Be Thou My Vision” in one take, which was a breakthrough for me. Bon Iver’s For Emma Forever Ago is probably my current favorite album. Aaron Strumpel, who produced the new CD is great at helping us find our greatness and has been a big influence too as a friend, collaborator and co-writer.
I love hearing about the creative approach of different people.

AK: Is there a typical way or ways that ideas for lyrics find their way from your mind or heart into song?

TT: Laurie just writes a lot. I write altars–milestones.

AK: How collaborative is your song-writing process?

TT: Usually one person writes a semi-complete song, then the other one tears it up and helps rewrite it. On about every song.

AK: What are the seeds or prompts for your songs; do you have a song-writing “method”?

TT: Lots of times we start with a psalm or another scripture. We started doing that when we were writing for Enter The Worship Circle: Fourth Circle and just never stopped.

AK: How do you grow a song from the original idea into it’s full form?

TT: Pain. And playing it for people–you can tell easier what helps and what doesn’t after playing it a few times for people.

The Blackthorn Project with Producer Aaron Strumpel (Centre)

AK: Your latest album “Reckless” features some Enter the Worship Circle staples like Ben and Robin Pasley, Aaron Strumpel, and Karla Adolphe.  What was it like to work with these artists?

TT: Fun–our relationships go so far beyond music. There’s so much trust there it’s a hoot.

AK: What surprised you, if anything, about your work on the album when you were in the studio?

TT: Oh, the studio is so great. You can try so much and be so out-there, and if it doesn’t work it might lead to something that does. If I may brag a little I was surprised I actually pulled off learning the weissenborn (a slide guitar) well enough to play on a few songs.

AK: How important is artistic community to you in your life and for your music?

TT: Not all the people who have effected our art the most are artists. And art doesn’t really dominate our interactions even when we are with other songwriters and musicians. Our people are very important to us, but I guess artistic community isn’t huge. I know that’s not a very artistic answer. To be fair, our close working relationships with Aaron, and Ben and Robin have influenced us a lot and have been very helpful artistically and toward the defining and accomplishing of our mission, which is trajectory our art takes.

AK: Place your latest album, “Reckless,” in your body of work: why this album at this time?

TT: Until was our first EP. The first songs we wrote together, or somewhat together. As the name implies, it was almost a prelude.

The Blackthorn Project's Discogrpahy

The Bluing of the Sky really represents the clarifying of our vision and a real stepping out together in faith.

Enter The Worship Circle: Fourth Circle was an amazing experience writing and recording with our friends, and really helped us make a change toward primarily realizing that we are worship songwriters. We started doing worship stuff everywhere after that, and I think that’s what people want the most from us.

You’ll hear on Reckless that we are now quite comfortable with ourselves and the sounds that come out of us. It is the least careful thing we’ve done, and has a lot more party on it than some of our other work. The heart of it is very clearly worship and the lyrics are cohesive in that way. Thematically, we know what we’re about and where we’re going in a way that we did not in our earlier Blackthorn Project releases. Why get all reckless now? One reason is that we have realized that the Kingdom of God is a party and that we are invited, not better versions of us. God’s love is not cautious, it’s reckless and we have freedom to make a reckless response.

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Learn about all things Blackthorn on their website.

Pre-order Reckless today and get a free download of “Mud Song.”

Patty Griffin, Downtown Church
I just purchased Patty Griffin’s latest album.  I’m enjoying the first listen as we write.  It’s a gospel album, recorded with a fantastic line up of singers in the Downtown Presbyterian Church on 5 Ave in Nashville.

“Both of my parents were very religious,” she says. “My father spent time living as a Trappist monk. It was a very Catholic life that I lived as a child. Spiritually I’m a mutt, at this point. All the imagery of those teaching is in me, it’s in my blood, and it continues to show up and inspire different things. A lot of people think this is too basic to think, too bleeding heart liberal to think, but we’re all looking for the same stuff.”

That said, Downtown Church isn’t all the same stuff. Like Patty’s previous six albums, it is stylistically diverse, focusing not only on the black gospel tradition but on the white Southern gospel songs of Hank Williams and Alfred G. Karnes (one of the dozens of artists not named Carter or Rodgers who were recorded by Ralph Peer in Bristol, TN during the late 1920s), and one beautiful nod to Hispanic gospel traditions. Alongside, happily, two Patty Griffin originals (she wrote more), and a closing hymn attributed to St. Francis of Assisi.

Read more about the album here.